Agenda item

Licensing Committee 18 June 2020 – Fantastic Morley Chicken 307 Stanstead Road SE23 1JB

In the matter of the application for the variation of a Premises Licence, the Committee has considered the relevant representations made.

The Committee has made the following determination:

With a view to ensuring the promotion of the licensing objectives, in accordance with the provisions of the statutory guidance and the principles of our licensing policy, the application for the variation of a premises licence was GRANTED as applied for subject to the conditions below being added to the licence.

In coming to a determination the Committee considered the following matters;

1.    The Committee noted the representations made by the applicant. He is an experienced business man and has worked at the premises for 5 years. There have not been any complaints regarding anti-social behaviour from the Police.

2.    The Committee noted that the applicant has worked with the local authority in an effort to clear rubbish from the local area. Overflowing bins were removed and rubbish was cleared.

3.    It was also noted that the applicant co-operated with Police providing CCTV when evidence of fly tipping was identified.

4.    The applicant claimed that because online delivery companies will be used to delivering food orders, there would not be any noise from delivery staff waiting around for orders, with engines running, outside the premises. Delivery companies will be ordered when food is ready for despatch.

5.    The Committee noted the representations made by 4 local residents and all written evidence. Huge efforts had been made in recent years to clear up the local area of rubbish. It was claimed that if the licence were granted, the area would return to being a problem spot for residents and increase costs to the council, who would have clean the area again. Parking is already a huge problem in the area and there is no parking outside the premises for delivery drivers or in surrounding areas.

6.    The Committee noted residents’ concerns regarding crime and disorder. Large numbers of young men already loiter outside the premises and if the licence is granted, there could be underage drinking. Drug dealing operates outside the shop and the applicant is unable to control this, so residents avoid walking past this shop, particularly at night. Residents have seen patrons eating inside the premises during lockdown which was illegal and do not have confidence in the applicant; they do not believe that he will adhere to the conditions on his licence.

7    The Committee noted that the premises is situated in a residential road where there are a few shops. There are many schools in the area and many of these children frequent the shop. Customers sit outside with their engines running and residents do not believe that most customers are from the local area. The granting of the licence would have a negative impact on peoples’ lives.     

8.   Representations were not received from any responsible authorities.

9.   The Committee noted that the applicant agreed to the conditions which had been recommended by the Police and licensing officers and agreed that granting the application, subject to these conditions, would promote the four licensing objectives.

Agreed Conditions for Morleys Fried Chicken, 307 Stanstead Road, Forest Hill, SE23 1JB

The premises shall install and maintain a comprehensive CCTV system. All entry and exit points will be covered enabling frontal identification of every person entering in any light condition. The CCTV system shall continually record whilst the premises is open for licensable activities and during all times when customers remain on the premises. All recordings shall be stored for a minimum period of 31 days with date and time stamping. Recordings shall be made available upon the request of Police or Local Authority throughout the preceding 31 day period, such copies shall in any event be provided within forty-eight (48) hours.

A staff member from the premises who is conversant with the operation of the CCTV system shall be on the premises at all times when the premises are open to the public. This staff member must be able to show a Police or Local Authority officer recent data or footage when requested.

A proof of age scheme, such as Challenge 25, shall be operated at the premises where the only acceptable forms of identification are (recognized photographic identification cards, such as a driving license or passport / holographical marked “PASS” scheme identification cards)

An incident log shall be kept at the premises, and made available on request to an authorized officer of the Local Authority or the Police, which will record the following:

(a) All crimes reported to the venue

(b) All ejections of patrons

(c) Any complaints received

(d) Any incidents of disorder

(e) Any faults in the CCTV system.

(f) Any refusal of the sale of alcohol

(g) Any visit by a relevant authority or emergency service

Notices shall be prominently displayed at all exits requesting patrons to respect the needs of local residents and businesses and to leave the area quietly.

All staff to undergo Licensing training, which will be documented and provided to police / licensing authority on request. This training is to be refreshed every 12 months. All new staff must undergo this training before being allowed to sell alcohol.

The DPS shall ensure that all employed delivery staff shall receive regular training; a minimum of once a year on the prevention of underage sales and on “Challenge 25” scheme. The DPS shall also ensure that all delivery agents that are used have also been trained and seek assurance from the company`s management.

All deliveries of alcohol only be made and delivered with a food order.

The delivery of alcohol will not be made to a person in a public place such as a street corner, park or bus stop etc.

The delivery of alcohol to be made only to a residential or business address, where it is clearly evident that the customer is a resident or occupies the business.

Any Delivery of alcohol must be paid prior to the delivery.

No delivery Riders will park directly outside premises, causing nuisance to residents and members of public. Staff will see that delivery operators do not keep engines running outside premises while waiting for orders to be prepared.

Alcohol only permitted to be consumed off the premises, and no self-service of alcohol on the premises.

When delivery driver cannot verify the age of the customer, delivery will not be made and an incident log must be updated, as a record of refusal.

No alcohol purchased alongside a takeaway shall be opened inside the premises

Alcohol will only be sold for takeaway when food is purchased

No alcohol inside the premises, to be displayed in the premises

3.1      The Chair welcomed all parties to the Licensing Committee. She introduced those present, and outlined the procedure to be followed for the meeting. She then invited Ms Hooper to introduce the application.

            Licensing Officer   

3.2      Ms Hooper said that members were being asked to consider an application for the variation of a premises licence for Fantastic Morley Chicken 307 Stanstead Road SE23 1JB. She said that the premises is in Crofton Park ward not Sydenham as stated in the report.

3.3      Ms Hooper outlined the current licensable activities and the particulars applied for under the Full Variation application. She said that representations had been received from five interested parties on the grounds of all four licensing objectives. Conditions had been agreed between the Police, Crime and Enforcement Officers and the applicant in order to promote the four licensing objectives. Objections had not been received from any responsible authorities. She outlined the options open to members of the Committee when making their decision.

            Applicant

3.4      Mr Mahendraravi said that he has been managing this business for 5 years. He said that most of the custom is through takeaway and delivery. He said that he wants to apply for a licence to sell alcohol because his customers want to buy alcohol as well as food. He does not have many customers at the shop after 9pm, there are more orders for delivery after this time.

3.5      Mr Mahendraravi said that Lewisham Council collect the waste in the bins outside the shop. He said that there used to be a problem with waste outside the premises not associated with the shop, but now the area is clear. He offered to show a live video of the area but the legal officer advised against showing evidence that had not been submitted before the meeting.

3.6      Mr Karapathi said that the applicant has worked at the premises for a long time, and there had not been any complaints from any of the responsible authorities. He said that the business is in a residential area but on a high street and there are other businesses in the area that have late licences to sell alcohol. One of the objections made was regarding a bin; it was a public bin on the street. Local people left rubbish in this bin until it was overflowing and it was the applicant who called the local council to remove the bin.

3.7      Most of the customers who come to the premises are local people and on- line delivery companies like Uber are hired to deliver the food; they do not have their own delivery scooters. Vehicles will not be parked outside the premises waiting for orders, the delivery company send vehicle scooters when the food is ready to be delivered. “Challenge 25” is enforced by the delivery companies

3.8      Residents had also complained about anti-social behaviour. The applicant will not be operating an off-licence; the alcohol will not be displayed but kept under the counter for sale with a take-away meal.

3.9      Mr Karapathi said that there are no schools within the vicinity of the premises and most of the customers are adults and families; the applicant has regular customers and knows about 90% of them.

3.10    Residents also complained about noise. There are approximately 300-350 households in Ravensbourne Road and yet only 5 complaints had been received. The applicant is a good manager; he has worked with the Police providing CCTV evidence when fly-tipping was being investigated in the area.

3.11    Councillor Powell said that two establishments near the premises sell alcohol, including one next door. She asked whether the application to sell alcohol is mainly for patrons ordering delivery. Mr Karapathi confirmed this to be correct. The licensing officer said that the applicant had agreed a condition that alcohol will only be purchased alongside a takeaway meal and should not be managed as an off-licence.

3.12    Councillor Elliott asked whether there will be a minimal purchase of food required when purchasing alcohol and whether there will be a limit to the amount of alcohol sold. Mr Karapathi said that customers who come to the shop mainly want to purchase a meal. If they just want alcohol, they can buy it from the shop next door.

3.13    Councillor Campbell asked the applicant how they will know that the recipient of a takeaway meal is legally able to buy alcohol and how delivery drivers will manage a situation where the recipient of a takeaway is not over 25 years. The applicant said that if a customer does not look over 25 years old, they check their ID. Alcohol will not be delivered if they are underage and money will not be refunded. The Chair clarified that it is the responsibility of the delivery driver to ensure that the customer is over 25 years old. The licensing officer said that the prevention of the sale of alcohol to people under the age of 25 years is set out in the conditions on page 31-32 of the agenda. The applicant had agreed to this condition.

3.14    Councillor Campbell asked whether delivery drivers have the authority not to deliver alcohol to customers under 25 years. The licensing officer said that there is a condition which states that it is the responsibility of the DPS to ensure that all employed delivery staff receive regular training, a minimum of once a year on the prevention of underage sales and on “Challenge 25” scheme.

3.15    Councillor Anwar asked for the opening times of the local family supermarket next door to Fantastic Morley Chicken. The licensing officer confirmed that the premises is licensed to sell alcohol until 3am.

3.16    Councillor Wise said that the applicant claimed that there are no schools near the shop, however, St Dunstan’s is located in the area fairly close to the shop. The applicant said that there are no primary schools in the area.

3.17    Councillor Howard said that a patron, whilst waiting to collect their order, could eat and drink close to the premises. Mr Karapathi said that most patrons are local and would buy food and alcohol to take home.

            Representation

3.18    Ms Preuss is the co-chair of the Blythe Hill residents group. Over the last 2 years their members have helped to clear up the area outside Fabulous Morley Chicken. She thanked Cllr Anwar for his involvement with this task. The legal officer asked Councillor Anwar whether he had been involved with the residents within the context of the ward. Councillor Anwar confirmed that he had assisted in the removal of the fly-tipping but this application was a separate issue. When he asked the legal officer for her advice she said that it would be wise if he excused himself from consideration of this application. Councillor Anwar accepted her advice and left the meeting.

3.19    Ms Preuss focussed her presentation on the licensing objective of public nuisance.

• If the licence is granted, it would undermine residents’ efforts made to clear up the area around the premises. The amount of litter, already of huge concern, would increase.
• There no parking outside the premises; it is on a red route. There is illegal parking in the area because of the lack of parking spaces.
• The area is a diverse family orientated area, which includes older people and people living with a disability and children.
• If the sale of alcohol was granted, it would attract more patrons and cause more problems in the area increasing noise and nuisance. There would be loitering outside the shop
• Delivery drivers would cause noise and pollution.
• The granting of an alcohol licence would affect the mental and physical wellbeing of residents.

3.20    Mr Thomas focussed his presentation on the licensing objective of crime and disorder.

• Granting an alcohol licence is likely to create a rise in anti-social behaviour with the sale of alcohol until 2-3am.
• Drug dealing takes place at the shop and in the poorly lit alleyways nearby. The licence holder said that he is unable to control this activity. Residents also the fear that prostitution could return to the area.
• A number of young men already congregate at the premises and there could be underage drinking.
• Residents already avoid walking past the shop particularly at night because they feel unsafe. Fights have been witnessed outside the shop involving patrons of the shop.
• A small packet chips entitles customers to purchase alcohol.
• Residents witnessed patrons eating inside the premises during lockdown which was illegal and do not have confidence in the applicant; they do not believe that he will adhere to the conditions on his licence.
• Residents expect crime to increase if the licence is granted.

3.21    Ms Lindsey focussed her presentation on the licensing objective of public safety.

• Granting an alcohol licence will increase residents’ already heightened fear for their safety in the area.
• “Challenge 25” does not go far enough in protecting children from harm.
• An increase in the number of scooters at the shop will increase parking problems in the area. Ravensbourne Road is already busy and used as a rat run. An increase in the number of notorious and reckless delivery drivers who disregard the Highway Code, parking on the pavement, will force residents to walk in the road.
• She asked how conditions could be enforced and what good an incident log is if it does not reduce risk of harm.
• She also asked how the employees of the delivery drivers will ensure that ID checks are complied with and who has the authority to move delivery scooters parking on the pavement.

3.22    Ms Vaughan focussed her presentation on the licensing objective of protection of children from harm.

• There are many schools in the area, both primary and secondary and many are patrons of the chicken shop.
• Cars already park at the bottom of the road near the shop, so it is difficult and dangerous to cross at the junction. Residents are forced to go further down the main road to cross.
• Alcohol will add a layer of temptation for young children who loiter at the shop. They will be able to purchase alcohol with a small packet of chips. There are people who will buy alcohol for children.
• Granting an alcohol licence has the potential to put the lives of young children at risk.

3.23    The Chair said that the meeting would now go into closed session. All parties would be advised of the decision within 5 working days. She thanked the applicants for attending the meeting.

At 8.30pm the meeting was suspended for a comfort break and reconvened at 8.35pm.