Agenda item

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Mr Henaughan said that the health and safety statistics outlined in the report are for a 12 month rolling period between July 2016/17 through to June 2017/18. He then drew members’ attention to paragraph 5.3 and three month reporting for the more serious incidents reported between April and June 2018.

Mr Cummins referred to paragraph 2.3 where it states that health and safety incidents are reported on a rolling year basis to June 2018. Mr Henaughan said that this is a mistake and clarified that the report refers to the period between July 2017 – June 2018, against where it has comparisons with the data from July 2016 to July 2017.

Councillor Gallagher referred to Appendix A. She said that the number of assaults by a pupil/ client on an employee has increased significantly. She asked for more information on this. Ms Aciro said that recently H & S staff contacted passenger services who deliver door to door services for vulnerable adults and children. The H & S team noticed that there had been under-reporting in this area and raised awareness of the data required and how incidents should be reported on the system. It was noted that incidents had been written in a book by the driver, but these were not always recorded onto the system. The number of cases have not increased, staff are now aware of how incidents should be uploaded and recorded correctly. Mr Henaughan said that the figures submitted to the next meeting of this Committee should give clearer comparison figures.

Mr Cummins said that over the last 12 months, there has been a change to employment practices in the door to door service team. The Council had taken the decision to contract out the attendants services to a third party organisation, and they were reporting to their own employer.   The unions believe that there were untrained people on the bus and they were a hazard to the passengers they were carrying. The Council has now finished that contract and staff are now better placed to understand Lewisham’s reporting systems. The unions have an ongoing dialogue with social services regarding who is responsible for risk assessment for the buses, because three potential groups are involved; there has not been any progress in these discussions. The unions consider that Social Services are responsible for the assessment because they put the passengers on to the buses.

Councillor Bernards referred to page 11 in the agenda. He said that some entries appear to be missing in CYP non-schools. . Ms Aciro said that the decline in reporting in CYP non schools could be due to change in service delivery, youth services were huge reporters but they are no longer part of the Council as services have been outsourced by Youth First. Mr Henaughan said that they are their own entity and in terms of reporting this has an impact on Lewisham’s statistics.

Ms Aciro said that at CYP meetings, H & S officers flag up the issue of under reporting, and with unions, officers are raising concerns and encouraging management to report accidents as much as they can. Under-reporting has been noted, but officers want to ensure that it is not the case that incidents are occurring but not being logged. Mr Henaughan agreed, he said that officers try to target their work where they believe that there should be more reporting of incidents, particularly regarding children and social care and the social work teams when staff go in to people’s homes where the potential for an assault is potentially higher.

Councillor Bernards asked what would make officers question the level of statistics for assaults. Mr Cummins said he believes that this is when incidents are not being recorded correctly in the book, they have not been chased up and then when they are sent to Health and Safety three months later, there is no narrative.

The Chair said that if Council buildings are being used by other service providers, there should be accurate health and safety statistics for accidents. Ms Aciro said that where an organisation has more than 5 members of staff, they should have a system for managing their own health and safety including incident reporting/ management. The Council can monitor their H&S performance in the buildings used.  Mr Henaughan said that with regard to the commissioning contract in place, there should be a huge amount of reporting coming back from Youth First. Health and safety is clearly in the contract just as it is with the leisure contract which is discussed at monthly and quarterly meetings  

Councillor Kelleher asked why health and safety information is not being reported correctly, she said that statistics are important and there must be accurate records. It could be due to a lack of understanding. Ms Aciro gave members some background into how officers are trying to encourage managers to report health and safety issues accurately and ensure all staff are kept informed

• Internally there are consultative health and safety meetings for each directorate. Raw data of incidents are discussed and under-reporting flagged up.
• Training is offered to managers on how to manage health and safety.
• Bulletins and updates and on reporting accidents and injury are on Sharepoint

Mr Henaughan said that there is a lot of officer interaction with schools regarding health and safety. There is a dedicated health and safety adviser. If under reporting is identified there will be an audit to ensure that incidents are reported. There are annual health and safety assessments which produces some intelligence. If spasmodic reporting is identified, an officer will be sent to the school to understand the reasons for this and work with them to address the issue. This officer would also work with schools on emergency planning. 

Councillor Kelleher asked what impact academisation has had on health and safety because this can affect accountability on what can and what cannot be done. Mr Henaughan said that academies are treated the same as community schools in terms of how officers address health and safety issues. Advice will be offered but it is not mandatory. Officers try to keep a good working relationship with academies; he referred to a recent incident where an academy worked to help a community school when it was not accessible to pupils for a few day. The pupils were accommodated in the academy; there had been good dialogue and lessons had been learned.

Councillor Kelleher said that she is concerned about the lack of accountability with regard to health and safety in academies but she was pleased that officers are making overtures to ensure that academies sign up to Lewisham’s procedures. Ms Aciro said that Lewisham has a good H&S management framework that defines roles and responsibilities for all staff in the Council and the Head teacher of a school has responsibility for managing health and safety in their school. Officers have a responsibility to encourage schools to work within the current H&S framework that Lewisham has.

Mr Cummins said that over the past 2/3 years he has been asking for detailed information for academies. At first he was told he would get the information, then he was told that he would not. Incidents are occurring; there have been a number of assaults at Haberdashers in New Cross by children. There have been attempted suicides in the last year. This should not be happening, unions have been raising questions because they know this Council has a duty of care to children. As there are more academies, there is less direct access and control of what is happening in schools. Health and Safety is one of the first services to go when there are budget constraints. This Council should consider how this information can be obtained and the pressure that can be put on schools. He said that schools have become academies because they do not want to work with local authorities preferring to take control themselves.

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Mr Cummins said that schools are also expected to buy in H & S advice yet there are only two members of staff to cover all health and safety issues in Lewisham. Over the last 8-10 years the Council has engaged in a programme of externalisation transferring services. For example, he said that two years ago there were reports from every library in the borough; now they are received from only three libraries.  This is not because the libraries are closed, they are open to the public. For the libraries that do not report incidents, it is not known whether there have been any assaults on staff, or what condition the building is in; whether it has asbestos or who has responsibility for H & S. Reporting for leisure centres is similar; he has not seen any data regarding assaults.  Mr Cummins said personally, he is aware of one assault; it was not reported to this Committee. When contracts are signed there should be some direct reporting line back to the Council.

Mr Cummins read out the figures for the number of people who have been abused or had threatening behaviour within each directorate. It shows that a large number of people have been abused and the staff that he represents want more protection from this Council. This should be considered by this Committee and how best to address the situation. Austerity brings more people in to services provided by the local authority, and the rise in number in Council buildings can cause tension and the possibility of assaults on staff rises.

Mr Henaughan said that although there are two members of staff in corporate health and safety, there is a designated full time education health and safety officer for children and young people. In the leisure centre contract, health and safety issues are discussed in monthly meetings. Mr Cummins said that it is not reported to Health and Safety Committee. Ms Aciro said that this should be raised at community services H&S directorate meeting with the chair. She said that the chair could then invite the client managers for leisure centres to update on H&S issues and incidents. Councillor Kelleher said that there should be a voluntary contract as standard. The Chair asked whether contracts for the libraries includes the requirement for clear reporting lines. Mr Henaughan said that this would be checked and reported to members but he thought that there would at least be a building management SLA.

Mr Henaughan said that officers are aware of problems at Haberdashers school in New Cross. A new Head teacher has just been appointed and this could be a new opportunity to start a new good relationship with the school. Ms Aciro said that every quarter, schools that have been underperforming are identified and contacted. It was acknowledged that there has been some over reporting in some schools.

Councillor Bernards referred to page 13 in the agenda. He asked about falls from a height and who decides what constitutes a near miss. Ms Aciro said that by law, officers are required to report any accident that happens in the work place including a near miss. This could be a slip but not a fall, or injury. The reason for reporting near misses, is that the incidents can be used to better reduce or eliminate hazards/risks including that of serious accidents or a death. Mr Cummins said that reporting near misses in places like Wearside is important because large vehicles are on site.

Ms Aciro said that when a manager reports an incident, there is a section that will ask what is being done to prevent any re-occurrence.  In regards to a fall from height and reporting, this includes working from a platform from which a person could fall 2 meters or more – a place at or below ground level not just a ladder, this includes falling down stairs even one step.

Mr Henaughan suggested that members may wish to consider details of definition of accidents. Assault by a pupil on an employee sounds serious, but the details may not be so serious. Statistics also include children from special schools. He said that members need to understanding the range within a category. Councillor Kelleher said that data is important so that health and safety issues can be addressed.

Councillor Bernards asked about the importance of Health and Safety. Mr Henaughan said that for officers, health and safety is about responsibility and keeping people safe. Ms Aciro said that Lewisham has a strong Health and Safety team that take all health and safety issues seriously along with strong union representation. Mr Cummins said that historically, this committee has had narrow terms of reference and unions have been told that this is not the forum to discuss the work force. This report focuses on employees and is the reason why he attended the meeting. Mr Henaughan said that there are a number of systems within the corporate structure where there is good debate of current issues, targeting support.

Mr Cummins said that over the past 3/4 years, UNITE have been regular attenders at internal meetings. There are 4 Health and Safety Committees and above that a Health and Safety Board. There are two long standing issues that the union has been working towards; issues do not go beyond the directorate. Issues are not resolved and should go up to the board. Most issues are resolved at directorate level but he said that the Committee may wish to be aware of more serious issues.

The Chair asked the clerk to send the legal officer’s advice regarding terms of reference of this Health and Safety Committee to members of this Committee. Mr Cummins recommended that members new to this Committee may want to read a publication entitled  ‘A Local Government Health and Safety Publication’ The clerk agreed to circulate this publication to all members of the Committee.

RESOLVED that

(i)    the report be noted; and

(ii)  the next meeting of this Committee will consider:

·         Community services contracts, particularly with regard to Community libraries and leisure centres. What data there is, how it is received, if it is not being received, how this can be changed; and

·         Haberdasher Askes School. The relationship with the school and concerns regarding violent behaviour by some pupils and attempted suicides. Mr Henaughan to meet with Mr Cummins to discuss appropriate action. Members to be advised regarding the results of the investigation. If serious issues are identified, a report will be submitted to this Committee.