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Managing Health and Safety Risks in Corporate
Buildings
Mr
Austin said that at the last meeting of this Committee, members
requested a fuller explanation about how the Council manages and
monitors the health and safety risks in buildings that the Council
owns but other organisations may occupy. The Catford complex comes
within Mr Agent’s remit and some of the community buildings
within Ms Dart remit and they would talk to the paper and the work
they do in this regard.
Mr
Agent said that operational buildings include Laurence House, Town
Hall Chambers, the Civic Suite and the Broadway Theatre.
Responsibility is divided between the various teams within the
service. Regeneration and Place are responsible for ensuring that
statutory arrangements are carried out and that works are
identified and completed within a reasonable timescale. The
compliance team ensure that works are completed correctly and that
documentation is up to date.
Mr
Agent said that there is also a Health and Safety adviser within
the service, who is responsible for looking at personal plans for
individuals who may be disabled in some way. There is regular
inspection of buildings so that consideration can be given to
individual issues that have not been addressed or have been
occurring on a regular basis.
Mr
Agent said that there is a building manager within the service,
responsible for front of house, reception and security. There is an
overarching plan, which gives particular emphasis on how Lewisham
deal with members of the public on a day to day basis.
Mr
Agent said that the Old Town Hall has a different arrangement to
other buildings because it is managed by a management agent on
behalf of Lewisham.
The
Chair asked about health and safety for actors when rehearsing in
the Broadway Theatre. Ms Dart said that there is a trained Lewisham
duty manager who will be on duty if anyone is on site regardless of
whether the theatre is open to the public or not. They have
responsibility for health and safety for each activity within the
building. They are particularly alert with new hirers to ensure
that any events that put health and safety at risk do not proceed.
If contractors are working in the theatre, a member of her staff
may not be on duty, in which case a member of Mr Agent’s team
would be on site.
The
Chair asked whether theatre companies have their own health and
safety programmes. Ms Dart said that they have insurance cover
similar to cover arranged by community centres and this is part of
the hire agreement.
Mr
Agent said that The Old Town Hall is managed by an agent, Cushman
and Wakefield, who are employed to take on a number of key
functions. One of which is to take on the responsibility of health and safety for the client
and consider fire regulations, code of practices and risk
assessments and ensure that any costs involved are recharged
through service charge to individual clients who use the facilities
within the building.
Lewisham oversee the management of the building and have regular
meetings with the agent. There is a governance procedure whereby
health and safety risks are identified and addressed in priority
order. The present issue is that occupation of the building is time
limited, and with the works taking place in and around Catford,
decisions will have to be made about what can be done over the next
5-7 years.
Mr
Agent said that Lewisham Homes and Compass are located on floors 1
and 2 of the Old Town Hall and a variety of users on floors 4 and 5
there are a variety of users as part of the D.E.K.
arrangements.
Councillor Handley asked whether there is always a member of
staff on site in the Old Town Hall from the management company. Mr
Agent said that there would not always be someone on site.
Councillor Handley asked what would happen in an
emergency. Mr Agent said that
individual users have their own health and safety arrangements but
no one person has responsibility for the day to day risks at the
building.
Councillor Handley asked about the procedure if there was a fire
in the building for example. He asked whether one user would advise
all other users in the building in an emergency. Mr Agent said that
there is an evacuation procedure and regular tests. Mr Cummins said
that there are micro businesses and there was no certainty as to
the number of people in the building on any one day.
Mr
Cummins said that he was confident that large companies like
Lewisham Homes understand their responsibilities, but he asked
whether small companies use Lewisham computers or install their
own. He asked what checks are undertaken to ensure that small
companies are compliant. Mr Agent said that Mr Cummins’ point
about the number of people from different organisations coming into
the building is relevant, and he would investigate the
matter.
Councillor Michael asked whether the agents Cushman and
Wakefield would be responsible for rodent infestation. Mr Agent
confirmed that they would be responsible.
Councillor Till asked whether there is an audit of electrical
equipment like kettles and toasters in the Old Town Hall. Mr Agent
said that staff are told not to bring in their own electrical
equipment. However, he said that he would investigate the need to
audit electrical equipment in the building.
Councillor Till asked when the last fire drill was held in the
Old Town Hall. The answer was not known but Mr Austin said that
with respect to evacuation procedures, the site was recently closed
down following a drop in water pressure. Health and Safety aspects
were met when the site was evacuated twice in one week.
The
Chair said that when he attends Downham Leisure Centre, there is no
information about health and safety procedures. He asked what steps
could be taken to ensure that users are aware of health and safety
regulations. Ms Dart said that a member of staff is always on duty
in the event of an evacuation, but health and safety information
should always be issued and she would investigate the
matter.
Councillor Handley had concerns because there is no single
identifiable staff member responsible for health and safety in the
Old Town Hall, particularly when there is an emergency. He asked
whether contractors have a plan showing the areas containing
asbestos in the building. Mr Agent said that there is an asbestos
plan for each building and work is checked by compliance officers.
There was a case recently when Lewisham were involved with the HSE
and the process was checked and considered acceptable. Contractors
are asked to sign confirming that the asbestos register has been
understood before work is undertaken.
The
Chair said that he had noticed that Chairs of Committees were again
failing to read out the emergency procedures at every meeting in
the Civic Suite. Mr Austin said that members had been sent a
reminder about this procedure. It was agreed that it should be read
out at the Chair’s discretion; when there are no members of
the public, Chairs choose not to read out the procedure. However,
when there are large meetings with members of the public in
attendance, the procedure should be read out. Councillor Handley
suggested that the evacuation procedure should be printed on one
page for the Chair to read where members of the public are present.
If there is an overhead presentation, the information should be
displayed at the beginning of the meeting. This was
agreed.
Ms Dart
made a presentation about health and safety in community centres
and libraries. She said that there are three different
arrangements. Directly Managed Centres, Premises Management
Organisations and Leases.
The
Chair asked whether officers see and check health and safety
policies when a client wants to use their facility and whether
officers could overrule if any clause was not compliant. Ms Dart
said that officers would overrule if practises at the premises were
not safe. Generally officers would not look at policies but would
look at risk assessments. Officers
would ask for insurance and point out that they need to comply with
Health and Safety regulation.
The
Chair asked whether officers should look at the policies if they
are new clients. Ms Dart said that what is written on a piece of
paper, is not always the same as what happens in practice on a day
to day basis. The Chair said that they should be the same. Ms Dart
said that staff ensure that there are safe practices on sight
rather than reading through long policy documents. The Chair said
that it would only need to be looked at once for new clients
because officers need to know before clients are on site that they
are compliant. Ms Dart said that there is a balance but some
smaller organisations had, in the past, claimed that they only
wanted to put on a small event and Lewisham’s rules made this
difficult; these small organisations often need Lewisham’s
guidance to improve the way they work.
Councillor Handley asked whether small organisations could sign
up to Lewisham guidance. Ms Dart said that this is already in place
for risk assessment but agreed to give this suggestion some
consideration. Councillor Handley said that the Leemore Centre has
many different organisations on site. He asked whether, in an
emergency, all of these organisations would be made aware of this
emergency and whether they would all know where to assemble. Ms
Dart said that there is a member of staff on site most of the time,
but Lewisham is responsible for the evacuation of the site, this
includes testing the alarms and making sure all organisations know
the evacuation process.
The
Chair asked whether there is one member of Lewisham’s staff
who is responsible for ensuring that the building is clear in case
of an emergency. Ms Dart said that each organisation is responsible
for their own evacuation. The Chair said that if Lewisham have
overall responsibility then there should be someone who can ensure
that there is a designated person from each company who is
responsible for their own staff. Ms Dart said that there is a
marshal for each team and it is for them to gather at the meeting
point.
The
Chair asked whether there had been a fire practice. Ms Dart was not
sure but said that there should have been. Mr Austin said that
officers cannot know for sure at any time who is in the building,
but it is the responsibility of the Marshal to ensure that everyone
present in their team is evacuated safely. Mr Cummins said that he
works for Lewisham in a building where there is provision for
enough marshals in the event of an emergency. He is confident that
the building would be cleared correctly. However, Lewisham’s
officers need to know that competent people are leasing these
buildings. Historically, there might have been members of staff who
had responsibility for these buildings, but because of cuts that
have had to be made by this Council, some of these positions no
longer exist. Consideration now needs to be given as to how this
situation can be resolved. He suggested that the organisations who
rent the space be asked how they approach health and safety. The
Chair asked Ms Dart to consider this issue and report back to the
next meeting. She also agreed to have a test of the fire alarm
before the next meeting.
RESOLVED that the report be noted and the action outlined above
be undertaken by appropriate officers.
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